A positive Adventist experience of Catholicism

Maybe this is too progressive for some.  But the ProgressiveAdventism blog has taken a look at how Catholic practices are seen as positive experiences by some Adventists ... all the way down to liturgical chants.

Besides showing some lovely icons, to which neither these Adventists nor Catholics pray, they give some insight into the beauty of Catholicism that is acceptable - and welcomed - by many Adventists.

This interest that younger Adventists are exhibiting is a "spiritual" one that seeks to incorporate ancient Christian spiritual traditions into daily life, many of which are retained in Catholicism.

I believe Catholicism (and the Orthodox Churches) retain a tremendous amount of spiritual traditions from the early Christian Church.  The Apostle Paul said we should follow their traditions - both those they wrote down, and those they taught verbally.  That applies certainly to their doctrinal teachings, but we do well to preserve their spiritual practices as well.  Adventism will only benefit from what we preserved for Christians that came originally from the Apostles and the early Christians.

Roman Catholicism ... sees the world and everyone and everything in it as a God-given reflection of the Divine.

Now they notice.

The one thing that remains a constant in this form of Adventism is the ease felt in interacting with Catholicism and the respect preserved for ancient Christian traditions of worship, spirituality, and approaching God.

Yet our theology is closely tied in with that.  Not only do historical records show us that our theology is equally ancient, but a better understanding of the practices leads to a better understanding of the theology.  Adventism badly needs that.  Too many Adventists spend too much time attacking Catholicism - usually only demonstrating that they really don't understand what Catholicism teaches.  If our practices bring us closer in worship, they may eventually come to realise that our teachings are actually not that far out, and quite biblically based ... just understood with a different world view - described well in the words I quoted above:

Roman Catholicism ... sees the world and everyone and everything in it as a God-given reflection of the Divine.

So we come to the question of whether or not this style of catholic Adventism is beneficial or detrimental to Adventism.

Oh, definitely beneficial.  Not only for the reasons I give above.

In order to allay any fears, I would like to point out that Adventists who are fascinated with Catholicism ARE NOT converting to Catholicism.

Hmmm ... perhaps not all.  But some.  I know of Adventists who treasure their rosaries.  They don't pray with them, of course.  Many Adventists have their pictures of Jesus.  We just call them icons.  None of us worship them.

It is not the dogmatic beliefs of Catholicism that they are attracted to. These Adventists appreciate and firmly believe in what Adventism confesses as doctrine (i.e., the fundamental beliefs).

Yet soon they will realise that the ancient Christian practices reflect the ancient Christian theology, and identify with it, and we'll see anti-Catholic tensions within Adventism fade.  At least amongst some.  The Christian roots of Adventism should remain.  Its unique teachings ... some could well become devout practices, such as the way the Sabbath was - and still is - kept as a pious tradition, but some will have to be abandoned in their journey back to ancient Christianity ... such as their concept of an obligatory Sabbath as a law of God, something foreign to the Christians of the first few centuries.

Adventists are finding spiritual solace in the ancient customs of the early Christians, kept intact within Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy ...

Let us pray that the Holy Spirit works through this trend (obviously He is already) and brings them a greater theological solace.


Itching ears, Adventism, and Western prophecy

A few interesting comments on Adventism and prophecy ...

Starting on the SDA2RC blog:

Adventists could easily respond to the author's primary critiques, including his charge that the Adventist prophetic paradigm is unnecessarily Western-centric. For instance, prophecy might focus on the West because it alone is relevant to end-time movements, whatever the breadth of the Mongol or Ottoman empires, for instance.

Huh?  Is being Western-centric a product of being Western, or a product of God's love for the white man?  (No, that's not my response to Hugo, that's my reaction to the idea that the West is the only place relevant to these prophecies, which was not his, but his example of how Adventists might respond.)

For instance, Adventism's "Western-centric" obsession with Rome and the United States ignores Daniel's interest in "your people" (12:1; the Jews), "the beautiful land" (11:41; Canaan) and "the beautiful holy mountain" (11:45; Zion) at what the text terms "the time of the end" (11:40).

... Adventism's prophetic paradigm is 7,000 miles too far West (and perhaps, 2,000 years too far future) to make sense of it.

They quote the Sabbath School for a New Generation blog:

The fact of the matter is that our notions of prophecy are very Western centric. You will notice that most of our interpretations center on Europe and the United States. The world is quite a bit bigger than that. ...

Our church has maintained that there will be no significant empires after Rome. As Carlos points out, there have been several empires. ...

Our ideas about prophecy seem to have been inherited from the wars between Catholics and Protestants, when Protestants were using the Bible to demonize their opponents. ...

And they in turn quote Spectrum Magazine:

The traditional Adventist interpretation of the statue that Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream (Daniel 2) has obvious difficulties. According to that interpretation, the prophecy teaches that no other world empire would arise after the end of the Roman empire and before the second coming of Christ. However, historical evidence indicates otherwise. ...

Any unbiased reader of history can follow the sequence of empires in biblical lands and other parts of the world until the twenty-first century without finding any hint that Rome was the last empire.

Certainly proper nourishment for the itching ears of prophecy buffs.


Just what is the Mass anyway?

For those who find the Mass somewhat strange, and wonder where on earth we got it from, the answer is short - it's based on Jewish liturgies, importantly the Passover seder.

See also Scott Hahn:

The Fourth Cup
The Fourth Cup [same as above, if you want to read it in red text against a red background]
The Hunt for the Fourth Cup

Most of the Mass consists of prayers, readings of the Bible, a sermon, and most of the non-sermon section, prayers included, is taken mostly from the Bible.  For a walk-through the Mass with the verses listed, see "Just what is the Mass anyway?"  It's an archived link, as I can't find the original elsewhere.


Bacchiocchi's timeline

Jared has a timeline of Bacchiocchi's interactions with the Gregorian on his blog, which he based on Bacchiocchi's recent refutations of Gregorian's statement about his thesis.

"Now there’s nothing to do but wait and see if Bishop Murray or the Gregorian have anything else to say. It’ll probably be a long wait."

We can hope.



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